I prefer Nick Anderson's CelloVision board to the ICS ones, which are very cliquey IMO. Reach it from: http://www.nicholas-anderson.com/ .

I'd certainly like to see this one be more busy. But there's always an issue of getting critical mass.

I've been lurking for a few weeks, but I finally registered for this board.

I just started taking cello lessons again, from a cellist friend. She is aware that I do not have the traditional classical cellist's goals (no interest in orchestra work, concert soloist, chamber music, etc.). So, she's giving me just enough classical training so I'll be able to navigate the instrument when I jam with people. So far she's given me technical exercises and the Suzuki Method, which is fine.

I do not like the layout of the ICS boards or the other one that was referenced, which appears to have the identical layout. I much prefer the look of the Fiddle Forum, which has a cleaner interface: http://www.fiddleforum.com/fiddleforum/index.php. BTW, though FF is violin-heavy, there is some cello representation there.

Glad to see some activity here! I have read the other boards but the premise of the NDCA seems to best match where I want to go with the cello.

I play American old tymey, celtic, English, Scotish, some scandanavian and Chinese on hammered dulcimer and cello..... what do others out there play?

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

Thanks! I read part of that board last night and although Nick seems to be VERY welcoming, the thrust seems to be 100% classical. Did I miss somehting? Or are those of us who gravitate away from classical in the tiny minority?

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

Nick is very friendly and I am sure would be happy to discuss non-classical matters, but his current user base is indeed classically focussed.

Having looked around recently for non-classical cellists there are indeed a large number of them, for example as shown by the list of links on this site, and also the very tempting range of cello-related CD's at http://www.cdbaby.com . So, I guess the question is why there isn't more of a community between them. The internet and this site would be an ideal place to help that happen.

People like to pigeonhole music and musicians, and with the exception of jazz, that's hard to do with non-conventional cello. And that's not a bad thing either anyway IMO. I'll start another thread on cellists and we can share our tastes there.

A lot of the folks there are into American old timey, Celtic, English, Scottish, etc. music. There are even some Scandinavian members who, yes, play Scandinavian music. It's hard to say how many of the cellists on that forum are also into these musics, though, because they tend to only post on topics related to instruments and equipment.

I only check in once a week or so because there isn't much activity here (yet). I also read the ICS forums but seldom post. I'm simply not that interested in classical music.

Paul - I'll look forward to meeting you at NDCF. Sacramento is my home town.

Yayyy!!! We're all talking. I think this is an excellent place for those of us who have moved away (or were never near) the classical world. Time to throw off our classical shackles and soar free!!

BTW I am also pretty American Old-timey. my band has a lot of fun (even if we're not that great yet). Our 80-year-old band leader started making a website for us, here is a link: http://kreelsborokid.tripod.com/

I'm so happy to see activity on this board again.

Once you're through growing, you're through. - Benjamin Franklin

So I gotta ask.... what do you use the cello for in an old tymey band? Do you pizz, do you play it like a cello (as in "sello"), or what? Do you have sound clips?

Ever been to Winfield?

Looked at your gigs.... the National Massage Convention? How did they pay you? Wink wink nudge nudge ;)

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

I look forward to meeting everyone! I just pray I can make it. Trouble is that my job that I love has decided it is moving out of state and I have decided not to follow it. In and of itself that is not really that bad.... I have had several interviews and will likely find something good. Trouble is that changing jobs means I lose vacation time. I am hoping that I can negotiate something with any new employer so I can attend the NDCF as well as the two big music festivals I go to each year and which I will NOT miss.

I just hope I am not seriously out classed (have I said this before.... feels familiar). My main instrument which I am very fluent on is the hammered dulcimer but I am still primarily a backup musician on the cello. I can occasionally make noises that I consider music when I am backing other instruments, but a soloist I'm not. But I see the NDCF as a place to do the one thing I have never been able to do before.... rub shoulders with many other cellists and grow and learn and observe. I can remember that feeling of awe and wonder back when I went to my first dulcimer festival. I hope it happens again at the NDCF.

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse!! Never been to Winfield, sorry. I play the cello in our old timey band in three main ways:

1. I emulate a bass. This is how I started. I just play the standard bluegrass bass lines, pizzicato. I now only do this on a couple of tunes, but when I do it, I stand up and hold my instrument guitar-style. I use a guitar strap that I have attached to the neck and the end pin. It works pretty well, but even if you slide the instrument up into an emulatio of cello position, it is very dificult to bow any but the bass two strings.

2. I play rhythm cello. I play a rhythmic groove using chordal elements. This is great fun as you can really express a lot of creativity in this manner. For an example of this style, listen to Rushad Eggleston from Crooked Still (http://www.crookedstill.com/).

3. I play melodic lead. When we play a tune, we all take turns soloing with the melody. Some tunes I can only play a straight melody. Other tunes I have learned to ornament very heavily. And for a very few tunes, I am completely improvising from the tune and the chord structure. This is by far the most fun, but very exhausting, as any jazz player will tell you! I sometimes also improvise harmony while someone else plays the melody. I find this works best with instruments with some sustain, like the violin or the human voice.

Once you're through growing, you're through. - Benjamin Franklin

Cool! I too emulate a bass in fiddle and dulcimer music. Some times I get carried away and pizz a melody or counter melody but usually I do alternating bass notes.

I am working on the chop style but have not gotten it working for more than one beat per measure with simple double stop chording. That is one thing I look forward to seeing up close and personal at the NDCF.

As for playing melody in fiddle/dulcimer tunes.... until very recently that was way beyond me. But suddenly it seems to be happening. I can now get my fingers to work that fast most of the time. However, I am still playing lots of notes on each bow stroke. Next step is to start bowing like a fiddle player to get the rythmical and dynamic variations that brings. We had a weekend music gathering this last weekend with a bunch of dulcimer players and a couple fiddles and I was surprised how well I could keep up.

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

I play in our local dulcimer club and love it very much. I just have to put the big mute on!!! 20 dulcimers don't have a chance against one cello!! LOL!

I usually don't play bass in the dulcimer club, because we have a washtub bass who is extremely good. The club uses a printed tune book, so I just read along. The nice thing is that the chord symbols are written over the tunes, so I have learned to apply some of my jazz improvisation techniques to these traditional tunes. I get the chance to go off into la-la land and just have fun.

As for the chop bowing, I am struggling with that as well, but there are dozens of other rhythmic things you can apply to traditional music. I usually just pick something that sounds like this: in 4/4 time I can emphasize the beats, Daa da-da Daa da-da. or I can emphasize the back beat, da-da Daa da-da Daa. I use the root and fifth of the chord, and I don't worry about parallel fifths. Those are just some simple things that I do, you can get far more complex with it. In 3/4 time, I usually play the root on One, and the fifth on Two and Three. Something like Daaa da-da da-da.

I hope my blabber makes some sense!

Once you're through growing, you're through. - Benjamin Franklin

Well knock me over with a rosin cake! Another cellist in the middle of dulcimers! Too bad we are so danged far apart.... I would LOVE to get you up to our big dulcimer blowout up here in Michigan in July. We play all sorts of stuff and there is every acoustical instrument represented, not just dulcimers.

Here are the only two cellists on the grounds.... me (on the right) and a buddy from California:

http://www.pgoelz.com/evart2005/image3.html

And do you know this guy?

http://www.pgoelz.com/evart2005/image278.html

Bill Robinson... plays bluegrass on the dulcimer. I love playing pizz with him when he doesn't have a bass player.

And trust me, you don't need a mute in Michigan. We grow dulcimers a bit louder than the normal little two stringers like you find elsewhere. It is a never ending quest of mine to convince people that playing gently and tastefully is more fun than banging away. Remember, I am actually a dulcimer player... been playing since about 1972. Just took up the cello in "modern times" (about 1988).

You need to get to the big festival in Winfield (Kansas). A choppy cello would be just the ticket at the monster jams at Carp Camp. Lots of folks from TX.

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

I love playing with dulcimers. I can (almost) play the mountain dulcimer, but that darn hammer dulcimer just confounds me. I can't play anything on it! I bought one for my wife for Xmas in 2004, and it was the best thing I ever did. I bought the darn thing because I thought she might be able to play it pretty easily (I was right) but I didn't expect to end up in this world of traditional music. What a great gift I gave myself.

Before I found the local dulcimer club, I was about to go look for a local amateur symphony orchestra. I played the cello for eight years, even majored in cello for several years in college. I quit playing when I ran away from home and joined the army. When I returned from the army after four years, I retrieved my cello. To my horror I discovered that I couldn't play anymore.

Twelve years went by, and I started playing again. My baby daughter wanted to play in the yard, so I started bringing my cello outside just to pass the time while she toddled around. Eventually I began to have the burning urge to play with other people again. Even though I was not nearly as good a player as I was when I was younger, I felt I was good enough to play in public again.

It was about that time that I discovered the dulcimer club, and the bluegrass club. The dulcimer club was good, because they had printed tune books for me. After a couple months playing with them, I found the weekly bluegrass jam. This is a typical jam, no one brings sheet music. This taught me more about music than I learned in a year of music theory in college! It was so liberating to allow myself to actually listen to the harmonic structure, and find where I fit in.

I've been doing this for only a year now, but I have improved so much in that time. I no longer want to play in a symphony. I love to improvise, it allows me to express myself more fully. Now I even play jazz and rock music. My world has become so much broader.

Now I see I've gone off writing about something completely different from where I started. Oh well, you don't have to read the whole thing!

Once you're through growing, you're through. - Benjamin Franklin

a big HELLO to all cellists!

on myspace.com i found the link for newdirectionscello

my profil with music there is

http://www.myspace.com/huschke

my official website is

http://www.cello-performance.com

all best!

wolfram

Long time passing.......

So here we are a week after the NDCF and no chatter? Where is everyone?

And Hilbilly Ben.... did I meet you at the NDCF and not realize it? With all the "screen names" it is hard to keep track of who is who.

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

Oh, when will we ever learn...

Gee, I have a day job that lets me scan the BBSs..... 'cause I'm the IT guy (among lots of other things).

I've been appreciating the two CDs from Barry Phillips that I brought back with me. Been working on some of the tunes and making some progress.

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

I met up with my cello teacher, Janel (NDCF 2005 attendee), and Heather (fellow NDCF 2006 attendee) at the Kennedy Center Millenium Stage in DC to see Yoshi The Samurai Cellist play. The webcast of his show (he shared a bill with Sean The Cajun Cellist) can be seen here:

http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/millennium/archive.html

Janel absolutely loved Yoshi's playing and tone and was full of questions about his gear afterwards. Yoshi was so happy to see us!

We have been working on his tune "Doxy" since I returned from NDCF. Distributing the bass part and the melody line to "Doxy" was a great idea, because Janel and I can take turns playing each part. We also took a look at the songs Lindsay Mac gave us in her Going Bowless I class. She had me show her Renatta Bratt's stuff too, but we ran out of time.

My biggest disappointment with NDCF 2006 was my recordings didn't come out well at all - something is messed up with my Treo's audio recording software that makes all my recordings sound like stuttering. This really hurt when it came to Natalie Haas' class, because she taught entirely by ear. I'm going to get a real digital recorder like your Edirol for next time.

I can't recommend the R9 highly enough. Yes it is pricey, but it is worth it!

Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

Greetings!

finally had a moment to check the board here-back to practicing , parenting and gardening- even just finished cutting my hay!! nice to be able to match some faces to the screen names! hear hear about the day job. I always tell people around here that the most valuable tools a New Mexico artist can have are good chef or construction skills.....

big gig tonight in Santa Fe (also known locally as Fanta Se) with Chipper Thompson of Banjo-Snake, Folk-n-Roll productions.

I had a blast at the NDCF and will work on getting back there next year if at all possible. Now that I have been to the NDCF, I will need to get my bows rehaired twice as often from now on!!!! - I am so thrilled to have so many new ideas to work on and to have new cello freak friends out there in the world.

clayman

I didn't get to make it to NDCF Paul. I am really glad to look at your pics, it looks like you guys all had a lot of fun. I live on very limited funds, and I have another baby due on Xmas! It may several years before I ever get to the NDCF. Someday tho...

I'm also torn. I would like to go to Winfield one of these days, but I don't know if I wanna do that first or the NDCF. If I go to NDCF, then I won't be the only cello in a jam, and everyone will finally notice that I'm not that good!! If I go to Winfield, I'll propbably be the only cello there, and no one will know that I suck.

Anyway, it looks like you guys had a lot of fun at NDCF, and it would be great to learn from somebody who knows how to read a jazz chart, and can improvise without any sheet music at all.

Once you're through growing, you're through. - Benjamin Franklin

Hi BEn,

Yes the NDCF was fun. I'm still a bit mystified why there isn't more chatter here about it.

Sorry the photos were not all that technically wonderful.... that was the last festival for that camera and I now have one that does a whole lot better in low light / no flash settings.

Cello at Winfield.... not sure what to tell you. Frankly, after attending Winfield religiously for maybe 15 years I stopped because there just weren't as many jams any more that I felt interested and welcomed in. Back then I was primarily a dulcimer player but took my cello along too. Found a couple jams where cello would be an addition but not that many. And got the royal cold shoulder in a couple. There is always Carp Camp, a truly open jam with all sorts of instruments and possibilities but other than that it was feeling more and more like a whole lot of semi-closed jams. We now go up into Canada for a couple big fiddle contests / festivals and have a lot more musical stimulation for a much shorter drive.

See: http://www.pgoelz.com/pembroke/

Winfield is a great place and I miss it.... and especially some of the great folks we met along the years. But from here it is a 19 hour drive each way and not as musically stimulating as it was in the good old days. And these days it is also a LOT more crowded. I used to get there the Thursday the festival officially started and always got a nice camping spot along the north fence in the Walnut grove. The last tme we were there (2003), we arrived the day of land rush (ie., a week earlier than I used to get there) and almost didn't get a spot in the grove at all.

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

Greetings,

hi Paul- I figure you may be the first one to check the board. Hope you are doing well!

I still can't say enough good things about the NDCF- it was completely worth it. Months later I find myself still digging into the wealth of info and ideas. (just saw Rushad live for the first time too, which of course left my brain appropriately addled- he is really good at what he does!!!!) Maybe I was somewhat overwhelmed because I am a cellobilly living in relative isolation to the "real world" out here in the middle of nowhere but I doubt it....

Chris White did a great job organizing - I thanked him so much he probably got tired of it! he is a great guy and a fabulous cellist. I sense he had a lot of help from some other folks too. Speaking of which, Chris, if you are reading this, I am also a visual artist and used to own a graphics /screen printing company... I am volunteering to design next years festival t- shirt if you are interested in that...

What I thought was notable about NDCF was the breadth of different styles and approaches- bluegrass, middle eastern , pure improv, latin, etc etc.... In many of the projects I do with the cello there is room for crossing over into different musical genres, so I was happy as a hummingbird in a rose bush to be at the festival!

Ben, are you familiar with Renata Bratt's books and teaching methods? - she has developed a wealth of very concise and clear info for bluegrassy old timey celtic cello fiddling...... I learned a lot from her workshops at the Festival.

also, Ben, I may have some gigs down in Alkyburpee soon so hopefully we we'll get a chance to get together and jam!

Hope everyone is having a great summer....

clayman

Hi Terry,

I'm doing great, thanks. Hope all is well with you.

Still wishing there was more traffic here. I read and post on the ICS boards but based on much of what I read there, I don't really fit in. NDCA is more my style I think.

As I said in my summary, I came back from the NDCF much amazed and gratified that there are that many ear players out there, playing music other than classical. I continue to try to apply what I saw andd heard in CA and am making some progress. It is just slower than I am used to..... kinda like waiting for a glacier to melt. Over time you can see it.... ;)

Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI USA
paul at pgoelz dot com
www.pgoelz.com

Yes Paul, that "getting older" thing makes it so durn hard to make progress. It may be slow, but it does keep going!!

I have just recently met Jeff Scroggins, a past national Banjo champion from Winfield. He is headed out there this weekend to try to take the title again. He thinks he has a pretty good shot, because his chops are better than they have ever been, but as you know, the competition can be fierce. Jeff and I had a great time jamming at the Santa Fe Bluegrass festival, and we took third place in the "Band Scramble" competition. (The band scramble is an amazing event here where you put your name in a hat, they draw names and place you in a band. Then you have one hour to come up with two tunes and a performance under 6 minutes. Truly amazing, and harder than I thought it was gonna be!)

Mark, I have one of Renata's books. I didn't really find it that helpful, as I had already intuited a great deal of what she had there. The most helpful things I have learned have been from Dave Parlato here in Albuquerque. I took some Jazz Improv with him, and that was extremely helpful. I am an intuitive improvisor, and having a little jazz theory helped immensely. (Especially the ii-V-I progression!)

When I quit playing 'cello I was so bored. I played classical and loved it, but I was just not interested in really structured practice. When I walked into my first bluegrass jam a year and a half ago, I felt at home there. I realized that I had been hearing 'cello parts to almost every piece of music I had been listening to for my whole life. I just never realized that I could actually play any of it!

It's a shame you didn't come to Santa Fe for the festival Mark. It was a fabulous experience. I met a lot of people and jammed till the wee hours of the morning. Maybe you'll make it next year. Admission is cheap and camping is free with a three-day pass.

Once you're through growing, you're through. - Benjamin Franklin

I'd be happy for more cello representation to be honest. The name of the forum is now set, and can't really be changed - Fiddle and Alternative Strings - but there is a section for amplified cello's and of course the effects section.. All the style sections are not closed to 'just' fiddle either..

Cheers,

Mark.

Hi everyone,
Just found this website/forum while I was searching for some sheet music for 'cello and clarinet, replete with CD accompanyment. We have found a bunch of stuff for SOLO instruments, but only a few things for both. Our tastes include classical, folk, Christian, jazz, pop, blues, show tunes...you name it. My friend and I like to play for social functions, weddings, funerals, church groups, etc.
I have found some interesting cello and other "C" instrument combos with accompanyment...might any of you know of some painless way of transposing a part to a b-flat treble instrument? Any suggestions, tips, or resources would be wonderful from this group.
Thanks! Feel free to email me privately as well.
Chuck Berkman

I, too, have a clarinet/cello duo. We don't play weddings, so my repertoire requirements are different, but there's a fair amount out there if you search

One useful resource is http://www.sibeliusmusic.com. The search function on it is a pain, but there's quite a bit of useful music there, either free or cheap, and you can transpose the top line of scores on many works before printing them.

Last Resort Music (http://www.lastresortmusic.com) also offers its Music for 2 for clarinet + cello or bassoon.

As for transposing, one trick is to read a treble clef Bb instrument part in tenor clef - then, you just have to adjust for the key. Also works in reverse - a clarinetist can read a tenor clef part as if it were in Treble clef and just adjust for key. :-D

Hope this is helpful!

Suzanne